Are you aware that you have used the Bible to explain your belief in the Bible?
As I understand your reply, you believe you have a relationship with Jesus because you believe he exists, and that relationship will continue forever after you die.
You believe this because it says so in the Bible.
I know this is difficult to admit to yourself, I’ve seen it in others, but this is circular reasoning.
It’s difficult to admit because we as humans are able to compartmentalise two opposing things in our mind at the same time. You can have a belief based on circular reasoning, and at the same time you can know that circular reasoning is not a good way to come to a conclusion on which to base a belief.
It’s your job as a Christian to make sure that your belief is true. By only looking at the Bible, you are failing in this endeavour.
“The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.” Proverbs 14:15
“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” 1 Thessalonians 5:21
And Christianity is what you believe in. If you’re telling me that the source of your beliefs is the reason for your beliefs, well, that’s not a good way to know things.
I know this isn’t easy, having your belief system exposed as untrustworthy. You can double down of course, which will make you feel better. Unfortunately it won’t change reality.
No, I asked where in Christianity the idea comes from. You used doctrine to answer me, which is fine, but by doing so you revealed that your beliefs are derived from a book that tells you to have those beliefs.
I pointed this out to you because it’s a problem, for you and for everyone else. We as humans should strive to make sure that the things we know are true, otherwise we get into all sorts of problems both as individuals and as a species.
but by doing so you revealed that your beliefs are derived from a book that tells you to have those beliefs.
You do realise that is not an argument at all? That’s like saying
“how do you know how to build this ikea bookshelf”
“I read the instructions”
“But you cannot use the instructions to prove that you are in possession of the ikea bookshelf”
You didn’t ask me why I believed in Christianity. You asked me to specify what parts of Christianity said that salvation is free and then got upset when I referenced letters from the Bible, which is THE collection of documents about Christianity.
I feel like you weren’t actually wanting to reason with this, and were just looking for a way to get me to quote Scripture so you could accuse me of circular reasoning and use your napkin image.
That’s like saying “how do you know how to build this ikea bookshelf” “I read the instructions” “But you cannot use the instructions to prove that you are in possession of the ikea bookshelf”
It really isn’t, it’s more like this -
“Why do you think you have an IKEA bookshelf, there really isn’t any good reason to think so?”
“I have this instruction manual and it says I have one because it says so. That’s good enough for me.”
You can see how this looks from where I’m standing?
I asked in good faith, it’s not in my nature to bait people. You’re welcome to your opinion but it was your answer which caused me to go down that route. And please, no-one is upset here. If you really wanted to have a conversation, perhaps quoting scripture wasn’t the best way to go about it.
You never asked me why I believed in Christianity. You asked me where in Christianity a specific doctrine was mentioned.
It’s a relationship with and eternal security in Christ.
I’m honestly very curious where this concept actually comes from. Would you be kind enough to help me pinpoint which part of Christianity suggests this, specifically?
If you like. If I had wanted scripture quoted at me then I would have asked for that, but I asked about the concept. You could have explained the idea and referenced the quoted passages as you went along, but you choose not to and by doing so you didn’t leave me with anything else to respond to.
This is a platform for communication and if you aren’t here for that then it can only be assumed you have no desire to do anything other than to preach and proselytise.
I leave it to you whether that’s something you wish to correct.
Thanks for the reply.
Are you aware that you have used the Bible to explain your belief in the Bible?
As I understand your reply, you believe you have a relationship with Jesus because you believe he exists, and that relationship will continue forever after you die.
You believe this because it says so in the Bible.
I know this is difficult to admit to yourself, I’ve seen it in others, but this is circular reasoning.
It’s difficult to admit because we as humans are able to compartmentalise two opposing things in our mind at the same time. You can have a belief based on circular reasoning, and at the same time you can know that circular reasoning is not a good way to come to a conclusion on which to base a belief.
It’s your job as a Christian to make sure that your belief is true. By only looking at the Bible, you are failing in this endeavour.
“The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.” Proverbs 14:15
“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” 1 Thessalonians 5:21
You asked for Christian doctrine… What else did you want me to use? You said “pinpoint where in Christianity”.
And Christianity is what you believe in. If you’re telling me that the source of your beliefs is the reason for your beliefs, well, that’s not a good way to know things.
I know this isn’t easy, having your belief system exposed as untrustworthy. You can double down of course, which will make you feel better. Unfortunately it won’t change reality.
You never asked me for my reason, you asked me for Christian doctrine, then acted like you asked for my reason in the first place.
No, I asked where in Christianity the idea comes from. You used doctrine to answer me, which is fine, but by doing so you revealed that your beliefs are derived from a book that tells you to have those beliefs.
I pointed this out to you because it’s a problem, for you and for everyone else. We as humans should strive to make sure that the things we know are true, otherwise we get into all sorts of problems both as individuals and as a species.
What you are doing is basically accepting this -
You do realise that is not an argument at all? That’s like saying “how do you know how to build this ikea bookshelf” “I read the instructions” “But you cannot use the instructions to prove that you are in possession of the ikea bookshelf”
You didn’t ask me why I believed in Christianity. You asked me to specify what parts of Christianity said that salvation is free and then got upset when I referenced letters from the Bible, which is THE collection of documents about Christianity.
I feel like you weren’t actually wanting to reason with this, and were just looking for a way to get me to quote Scripture so you could accuse me of circular reasoning and use your napkin image.
I think you’ve missed the point, but that’s ok.
It really isn’t, it’s more like this -
“Why do you think you have an IKEA bookshelf, there really isn’t any good reason to think so?”
“I have this instruction manual and it says I have one because it says so. That’s good enough for me.”
You can see how this looks from where I’m standing?
I asked in good faith, it’s not in my nature to bait people. You’re welcome to your opinion but it was your answer which caused me to go down that route. And please, no-one is upset here. If you really wanted to have a conversation, perhaps quoting scripture wasn’t the best way to go about it.
You never asked me why I believed in Christianity. You asked me where in Christianity a specific doctrine was mentioned.
If you like. If I had wanted scripture quoted at me then I would have asked for that, but I asked about the concept. You could have explained the idea and referenced the quoted passages as you went along, but you choose not to and by doing so you didn’t leave me with anything else to respond to.
This is a platform for communication and if you aren’t here for that then it can only be assumed you have no desire to do anything other than to preach and proselytise.
I leave it to you whether that’s something you wish to correct.