I don’t really know how to structure this question, but yeah, why is always Naval and never Aviation?

  • franzfurdinand@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    I think most generally it’s because naval analogues are probably the closest when you’re talking about large space-based fighting vessels. The air force doesn’t operate aircraft carriers, battleships, or destroyers. The navy, however, does (or did in the case of battleships). Those large sea based vessels often class quite nicely into a lot of sci-fi media for large ships.

    The small ships you see are often based off of a carrier equivalent. Even when they’re terrestrially based, it makes a lot of sense to streamline your military structure to have just one “space force”, rather than trying to break it up into two entities like the “space navy” and “space air force”, each with their own standards and logistical supply networks.

    • TheAlbatross@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      9 months ago

      I think you’re largely on the ball here, but thinking about it further makes me question this… early spaceflight was almost exclusively done by people selected out of aviation forces. While we haven’t operated a single craft outside of Earth’s Sphere of Influence and thus been outside of range for largely terrestrial based control of the incredibly complex operations of a spacecraft, I wonder how that much of that aviation culture bleeds into spacecraft operations.

      Though, this may change when a spacecraft can operate outside of Earth’s watchful eye for a period of time.

      • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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        9 months ago

        That might not even happen, though. Space isn’t like an ocean where you can move around arbitrarily; craft mostly follow ballistic trajectories. As it is, it’s actually more like artillery with human cargo than like aviation, let alone a boat that can go anywhere anytime.

        The exceptions are craft with slow-burn engines like ion drives, which allow enough delta-V for a craft to hit more than one destination. Those still need energy, though, so they need to be near something like the sun to operate indefinitely. Over interstellar distances, a 20-year boost at millinewtons is still relatively short, and we’re back to ballistic trajectories. On such a mission, if the crew is human and awake it would be more a matter of keeping everything operating as intended than deciding anything. I expect any culture that develops would be more about the off-time.

        Speaking of boosts, burns and delta-V, you can see a bit of space’s own culture growing already. My best guess is that the structure of a future interstellar mission would be a bit familiar to today’s ISS astronauts.

      • Jimmycrackcrack@lemmy.ml
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        9 months ago

        I think the best reasoning for this has more to do with the practicalities of writing than with the accuracy of the speculation about future human endeavours. As you say, there haven’t been any naval missions in space, which is exactly why when drawing from more familiar analogues you can find a richer vein by looking upon naval tradition instead. While fiction, and sci-fi in particular is going to involve some imagination to literally create and invent things all fiction tends to deal in with what we know and only a small dose of the fantastical to reframe it in a more interesting context.

        The lack of similar real life equivalents for long missions with a lot of personnel and very large craft and opportunities for internal rivalries, promotions, ambition and rival navies with largely equivalent structures and traditions in current spaceflight, means that the work of writing about scenarios where that happens in space is going to be much harder and probably less resonant without drawing on something where all of that already exists. In addition to that, the hundreds of years of different naval traditions and rituals makes for more pomp and circumstance and delivers a ready-made atmosphere that’s well understood even by the layperson as in those hundreds of years it has seeped in to the public imagination.

        Tapping in to all the practical similarities between the scenarios often portrayed in SciFi and naval contexts along with all that cultural baggage makes for a much richer and more vivid atmosphere and setting within which the characters can interact with one another. This is reason enough to transpose naval tropes in to your space based science fiction story whether it makes the most sense or not for the way such endeavours might actually be organized in reality in the future.

      • NaN@lemmy.sdf.org
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        9 months ago

        I think you’d have to better define what the culture is that you think would change. For example, I’m sure some terms used on the shuttle are not used at all in other vehicles simply because of its design. I think naval aviators have generally been slightly more numerous in the astronaut corps, although only by a small number. I don’t think any ship has reached the point in size where there’s a dude who is paid to think about things and everyone else hits the buttons.

    • JamesTBagg@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      That’s always been my take. The Navy has the experience with big-ship operations, and operating smaller craft from those large ships, and it’s supply and logistics would likely evolve from ocean to space faring ships.
      The Marines are historically an amphibious force, an extension of the Navy, specialized in ship-to-ship and ship-to-shore operations; ship-to-surface would be the evolution of that.

    • neidu2@feddit.nl
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      9 months ago

      I think this is mainly it.

      Additionally, aviation terminology is often very specialized, usually pertaining to aerodynamics and the like. But ship terminology is often more general.

      For example, airplanes have aerofoils and control surfaces, where ships (both space and maritime) have thrusters.

    • Exocrinous@lemm.ee
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      9 months ago

      Halo has the UNSC Navy, the UNSC Marines, and the UNSC Army working together in space.

  • lanolinoil@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    Because they’re way more like ships than they are planes – Planes don’t stay in the air indefinitely or take long voyages, have large crews, etc – They often treat the fighter pilot space ship people like AF though – Like if I have a ‘carrier’ with a bunch of smaller ships on it

  • Digital Mark@lemmy.ml
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    9 months ago

    The purpose of Air Force is to monitor the skies, project power at a distance, and provide air superiority.

    The purpose of Navy is to put a floating fortress off your shore and bombard your cities, carry around materiel, men, and aircraft, and patrol a vast volume of ocean.

    So Navy structures fit the mission better, and this has been true since early SF.

  • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    Because people don’t live in an airplane together for long periods of time. Pilots in sci fi are often aviation themed, but captains are naval because spaceships beyond our current level are closer to battleships, cruise ships, or aircraft carriers than fighter jets or passenger liners.

  • Kaplya [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    9 months ago

    Space warfare is much closer to naval warfare on Earth, so naval tactics and strategies are more transferable when applied to space. For example: taking weeks to maneuver, and firing at your opponent 100,000 of kms away.

    Air sorties are typically completed within hours, because it is ultimately limited by the fuel they can carry.

  • NaN@lemmy.sdf.org
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    9 months ago

    In the US at least, Air Force officer ranks match the Army and Marines. Sci fi tends to use those ranks for ground fighting teams.

    Ship structure makes sense for a large ship. There is no similar aviation structure, the guy ultimately in charge is the aircraft is the pilot in command, generally the one flying the aircraft.

    Some technical terms make more sense too. A hull is watertight, it translates well to a ship in space. A fuselage is describing the shape of the main body of an aircraft.

  • TheAlbatross@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    9 months ago

    I think it often has to do with the scale of the ship. Operations on a starship with crew numbering in the dozens to hundreds might be closer to operations on a naval vessel than aviation. We don’t have aircraft with that scale of a crew or aircraft that operate away from base for such a long period of time.

    The other thought is, uh, well that’s what Star Trek did.

  • Sequentialsilence@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    In addition to what the others have said, in real life, international space law was based on maritime law. They even based directions on maritime law as the sailors used the stars to navigate, and that’s all you have in space to navigate with. So rockets and spacecraft call their directions the same as ships and sailing vessels, they have a port and starboard side, a bow and stern, up is zenith, down is nadir.

    Fun fact the actual directions have some cool historical meanings. Nadir is the lowest point in elevation in the surrounding area, aka the bottom of the boat, and zenith is the area directly above you. So you could measure your latitude by measuring a star’s position relative to your zenith. Port was the side you docked on, because your steering oar was on your right. Starboard is a bastardization of the word stéorbord which is what the steering oar was called.

    • HobbitFoot @thelemmy.club
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      9 months ago

      And it is important to note that the civilian aviation sector copied over civilian maritime sector.

      The person in charge of the aircraft is the Captain, followed by numbers officers. This is similar to what happens in shipping. The chief flight attendant on an aircraft is the purser, which is the chief steward on a naval ship. There used to be Chief Engineer positions on some aircraft, similar to Chief Engineer positions on naval vessels.

      The only reason the Air Force has its rank structure currently is because it branched off the Army.

    • BellaDonna@mujico.org
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      9 months ago

      I always had assumed Starboard being the opposite of port meaning you were navigating away from your home port to the stars.

  • Posadas [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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    9 months ago

    Naval terminology is cooler.

    “I’m the Captain of the USS Enterprise.”

    Vs

    “I’m the Colonel of the Exploration/Reconnaissance/Fighter craft Enterprise.”

  • oscardejarjayes [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    9 months ago

    You’ll sometimes see aviation terms for the little fighters that launch from the larger ships, like in macross. I think it’s a matter of scale, really. An airplane will usually have single digit crew, maybe double digit. A warship will have hundreds, and the bigger the ship the more the crew.

  • blashork [she/her]@hexbear.net
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    9 months ago

    I gotta imagine that each planet in a sci fi setting would have its oen airforce, where as the compasion of space to a vast ocean makes sense for the organization tasked with patroling it.

  • FaceDeer@kbin.social
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    9 months ago

    A notable exception is the Stargate franchise, where Earth’s spacecraft are largely run by the US Air Force.