My current issue is i see you guys constantly having issues, editing files etc.
Is it not stable?
Can you not set it up and then not have ongoing issues?
This is a forum where people seek help. Of course you’re going to see problems here. Nobody posts “hey it’s been several years and I’ve had no problems.”
Of course linux is stable. It runs like 80% of servers on the Internet.
Can confirm. I’ve been using Linux for nearly 30 years… I don’t post questions on forums. Bug reports for OSS projects, on the other hand…
Also can confirm. Been using Arch, which most people consider requires more fiddling than other distros, for almost 10 years now and have had few issues with it. I’ve had to fix my Windows install more than my Linux.
Hey, it’s been well over a decade, and the largest problem I have is a crippling addiction to distro hopping…
Personally, I don’t get the appeal of distro hopping. I think it’s nice to try different concepts, but there aren’t that many.
You basically have the “classic” distributions, like Debian, Suse, Fedora and their derivatives and if you want those split up into the stable and the rolling distributions (Arch, maybe Debian Sid). Then there’s the source-based distributions, most notably Gentoo and derivatives. Declarative distributions, NixOS and GUIX system. And then maybe the newer breed of immutable distributions like Fedora Silverblue.
To me, the difference between an Arch system and Debian are kind of minimal. Yet I’d always prefer Arch. But why would I hop to OpenSUSE?
Granted, I always install from the terminal anyways and build my system to my needs, so I usually don’t get the default experience.
Welcome to the club. Just now I’m setting up Endeavour to give it another (14th) shot.
Big oof. May the kernel be with you.
I’m going to do my best to “wait” for PopOS 24.04 before I hop out again. It seemsbI finally got Endeavour right, with hybrid graphics and all. The only pain was actually how long it took to install Lubre Wolf. Ah, and that the first attempt at installing flatpaks, nothing was showing up after install until I rebooted. But now they work as expected.
Mmmmmm…that feeling when everything just finally falls into place and works right. chef’s kiss
Only 80%?!? I assume *BSD isn’t counted in that number. I really can’t see people running windows on their servers…
And to be honest, server stability != display server stability.
To be honest I pulled the 80% out of my ass… It was the first reasonable looking number that came up on a quick search.
Of course linux is stable. It runs like 80% of servers on the Internet.
I assume *BSD isn’t counted in that number.
BSD isn’t Linux.
Of course it’s stable.
Just like with Windows, the more advanced stuff you do, the more advanced problems you’ll have.
If you just wanna set and forget, avoid arch based and you’re golden.
Well unless it’s just editing the text file. God forbid you unknowingly enter vim and don’t know how to get out without rebooting.
There was a time when I had to do that. I was a teenager. I had no idea what I was doing. And it was many many years later that I finally learned how to quit it. That pain keeps me away to this day.
Long live nano, the warm and cuddly text editor.
… It didn’t occur to you to google “how to exit vim”?
It’s :q! and if you were in some special mode you can spam esc a bunch of times before.
They couldn’t, didn’t you read? They were stuck in vim!
I’m not sure of you are trying to be funny, but just in case you are not, if their only working environment was a terminal and they didn’t know how to get out of vim, they were fucked to begin with.
I’m guessing they entered vim because they copied it from somewhere, be it another window, having vim in a terminal emulator, a mobile phone where they searched whatever, or another PC. If we are talking about a non graphical PC with just a single tty or a user without the knowledge of changing ttys or without the knowledge of searching the web from the command line, who somehow entered vim without external input, that’s kinda on them, idk. There’s several fuckup steps in there, all nicely stacked.
<This is an auto-reply. The user you are trying to reach is currently using vim and therefore unable to respond. If you’d like to leave them a message, please respond to this comment with the content of the comment that this response is responding to. This is not a joke. Thank you.>
Google didn’t exist.
That’s assuming that you’re able to google it. Before everyone had a phone in their pocket, and 17 computers lying around if you were stuck in command line with no GUI then you had no option.
I second this advice. Arch is a rolling-release distribution, so most of its packages are updated to the latest releases as soon as they come out, regardless of whether they’re tested to be stable with other software and hardware configurations.
I have “ubuntu server” installed on an old computer I use for hosting game servers. That thing is incredibly stable and low-maintenance.
Keep in mind that all the people who are just happily going about their day to day with it and not having issues are probably not posting. The only reason most people make posts is to complain about something or get assistance troubleshooting an issue. It also really depends on what all you want to do with it.
The people who gave up because they couldn’t solve their issues aren’t posting either.
Yes. Install Linux Mint and be done. Just works. A lot of “problems” people have are because they enjoy tinkering and that will sometimes break stuff. Leave it alone and it’ll be very stable.
Thank you
One of my favorite things about Linux is this: you can try it. Get a thumb drive, get Rufus or Etcher. Download Mint, Ubuntu, something with a “Live Linux”. Boot from the thumb drive, spend an hour or two surfing, clicking around, seeing if things work. 2018, you had like an 80% chance of a flawless experience. 2024, it’s way higher! Plus, the alternatives have gotten slower, more bloated, more interested in monetizing you than serving you, so even if it feels strange, and you have to relearn some stuff, more than ever, it might be worth it.
Even if it didn’t work quite right, keep the thumb drive around. The number of times I’ve rescued an important file off of a messed up system using a thumb drive with Mint on it? You’d be surprised.
Just want to mention Ventoy here. Able to boot from one thumb drive into a selection of distros? Yes please.
I also use Ventoy. Someone says it has problems, I never found them
Some older PCs are cranky and won’t boot it. Some newer PCs refused as well, to ‘protect’ me from a shim.
This is awesome advice, ill give this a go first thank youvery much
the dark secret of linux is that there are just as many people who dont understand how to solve problems and resort to searching the correct way to shake a dead chicken as with every other platform.
Ever read some of the microsoft forums? Just as many people seeking help there - the only difference is we don’t have an over eager paid employee replying with scripted answers which don’t help.
Linux is as simple or as complicated as you want it to be. Most of the mainstream distros “just work” on most hardware. I’ve installed Mint, Rocky, Ubuntu and Debian on laptops and desktops for relatives, including those who aren’t remotely technically gifted. It was as easy/easier as Windows to install, set up and get running. The users are happy - they can use cheaper hardware (and don’t need to upgrade a perfectly good laptop for Windows 11) and are entirely free of software costs and subscriptions. Everything works and things don’t break - just like Windows and Macs. Most people just want their computer to turn on and let them run stuff. All three do that equally as well.
I’ve also installed linux on hardware clusters costing hundreds of thousands of pounds and that definitely wasn’t a simple or quick process, but that’s the nature of the task. Actually, installing the base os was probably the easiest part. Windows just isn’t an option for that.
You ask a fair question - you’re not unique in your viewpoint and that’s probably hampered takeup more than anything else. What makes you a bit better than most is that you actually ask the question and appear to be open to the answers.
Thanks for the write up,
I’m going to look into it in the next few weeks.
Who’s going to post online about when nothing eventful happened and they have no issues?
Yeah i understand that, i just wanted to check
Survive biase
In general it’s pretty stable. That being said, especially when you’re using bleeding edge hardware, it’s not perfect.
Take my Radeon 7800 XT as an example. I’m using Linux on my desktop as of January 1st pretty much, and decided I’ll go for Fedora as it’s pretty up-to-date in terms of kernel releases but also has a great out-of-the-box experience. Kernel 6.6 has been pretty good for me, but newer kernels (6.7.x and 6.8) have issues with my setup. Engaging VRR (variable refresh rate) after the computer wakes up from standby leads to part of the screen flickering white for a few frames every now and then, and eventually the system crashes. Up to 6.7.4 the GPU only output a black screen after standby or even after a warm restart. The latter has been resolved in 6.7.5 but the former issue has not. I’ve been following a few issues, adding a crash report here and there, trying patch files, but so far to no avail.
This means I’m basically stuck on 6.6 for now, which also means I’m compiling the kernel myself to get the latest patch release, as Fedora doesn’t maintain 6.6 anymore.
I had even more issues with Nvidia combined with Wayland. Ironically, Intel Arc probably works the best in terms of stability in my experience.
I’m going to say that in terms of GPU stability, I had a better experience with Windows. Sure, the odd AMD driver release has issues, but Windows does a way better job in recovering from a GPU driver crash. The monolithic nature of Linux means a GPU driver crash will often kill the whole system. I had a case where the system recovered, but in a new desktop session with my running desktop applications orphaned somewhere (basically forcing me to restart). Windows usually just restarts the GPU driver (because it’s mostly running in user space, which it isn’t in Linux) and you can continue.
I also had an issue with my network adapter (Intel 2.5G onboard) dropping connection after several hours of use. A workaround involved editing boot parameters to prevent PCIe from going into some sort of power saving mode. Searching for the issue revealed that it’s likely because how ASUS (mainboard) configured the onboard network adapter.
You’ll also need to fiddle with Feral GameMode to properly pin games to the 3D cache cores on a 7950X3D. This is more “set and forget” with Windows Game Bar.
To be honest, Windows is a pretty solid OS from a technical perspective. It has its downsides, but so has Linux. Don’t switch for an allegedly technical superior experience. Switch if you don’t agree with what Microsoft is doing from a user experience perspective. That’s why I switched.
All that being said, Linux at its core is super stable. I use Linux on a few servers for many, many years now, and I don’t think I ever had a system crash.
Thanks for the detailed write up. My main motivation or switching is Microsofts way of doing things, im tired of the forced subscription plans they’re moving too.
I wish i could have XP and be done with it haha
It’s perfectly stable. Linux just generally attracts people who like to tinker and tweak things, in particular because it’s much easier to do and gives you a lot of power and flexibility in making the machine your own.
My laptop running Arch Linux has remained problem-free for the last 6 years or so since I installed it.
yeah i’ve basically never had an issue that wasn’t my fault for tinkering with something that is either unstable or that i didn’t understand well enough.
i will say that rolling releases like arch can introduce system-breaking issues (it happened to me like twice in the 3 years i’ve been running arch, but man it sucks when it happens) so users who aren’t so into tweaking and messing with their systems should probably opt for something more stable.
I would argue that, even if you’re not into tinkering, you’re still better off running a solidly proven Linux distro that requires minimal to no maintenance other than software updates (Debian stable, PopOS, Linux Mint, etc.). Just “flatpak” your way into having what you want, and leave the system itself alone, just like you do with Windows, but with less chance of something breaking and driving you mad when you suddenly land a BSOD. In any case, it’s highly likely that you’ll end up beginning to tinker after somentime feeling comfortable with Linux, happens to everyone I know has come to this side of happiness. Be aware that, once you are used to ANY Linux use, you’ll be wondering why you put up with all the Microsoft or Apple crap for so long. I can’t imagine ever going back to that.
Part of Linux culture is customizing your system. Linux allows you to do much more with your computer, but some of these things require tinkering or might cause you to break your setup. If you don’t tinker much things will most likely be stable, but having the ability to tinker is for me a major part of the appeal. What are you hoping to get out of using linux? It’s a good alternative if you wanna make an old computer run more smoothly, if you care about privacy or if you don’t want to have to pay for your operating system, and if any of those are your main reason go for it and it will probably work out smoothly. If you’re interested in linux because it seems “cool” or “fun” you’re probably gonna have to do some tinkering so in that case you should be prepared to edit some files, read some instructions and possibly ask for help online.
I had far more issues on windows than I ever have on mint.
When I had issues on windows, which i would run into multiple times a week, the “fixes” would be hacky, slapped-together nonsense that don’t even make sense on paper. I had to change almost every program manually to run as administrator. Installing old games was a nightmare and didn’t always work properly, even with compatibility modes. New drivers would break stuff. Trying to learn anything new was a rabbit hole that took countless hours and then I only learned the fix for that one specific use-case, and not anything… overarching. System updates were so intrusive, installing crap I didn’t want or removed manually, I disabled them completely. It was slow and boot took forever. Ending system processes via task manager didn’t always work and the system would freeze often when something went wrong. Often uninstalling programs was messy and left shit all over in the system registry and files and you would have to defrag and system clean once it started getting bloated.
When my windows install finally broke completely just trying to get shit to work the way I wanted, I bailed.
Transitioning to mint was certainly a learning experience.
Reorganizing your workflow will always be more upfront work, but I found I took to the changes fairly quickly. I found the file structure the most odd, but I became very used to it and very much prefer it over how hard it is to find stuff spread scattershot in windows files. It had a lot of little quality of life things that I really appreciate, mounting and unmounting external drives felt better, way more stuff worked out of the box, old games were not a nightmare to get working because they’re had longstanding fixes for years that actually make sense. Solutions, in general, make way more sense to me, and I actually get a sense that I understand why they function. My boot time is very fast and I’ve never broken my system (I came close once doing something incredibly stupid and very niche, but I just timeshifted back and voila, fixed.)
Fixes or changes for preference tend to “stick” for me, like when I swapped to pipewire myself it’s been very smooth sailing. I can pick and choose updates or ignore packages that don’t work. There was an issue with kernels for a while that significantly increased my boot times; I just postponed that update for a few versions until one of the newer ones worked. I find I can get down similar rabbit holes to learn some stuff, but it both feels more like “lasting” solutions (and I learn more about how to do other stuff) as well as just more fun. Documentation is a lot better with users who know what they’re doing instead of the guesswork “well I dunno but this might have worked for me, I tried 20 fixes so it’s probably one of these!” I would run into on windows troubleshooting…
I think my favourite part of linux is a lot of things I wanted solutions to, for years, usually have at least one person out there with a similar issue that wrote a small program that just does it. Does it well. For free. I spent so much time digging for really basic stuff like a sound equalizer that wasn’t garbage, bloatware, full of trackers, or ransomware! I don’t have to spend hours trying to find a stinkin’ RGB controller that isn’t awful because the choices available are just better! I don’t have to spend weeks comparing and contrasting antivirus-es and hate all of them in the end!
I find mint extremely stable and have no urge to swap nor return to windows. I find it much more stable for my use-case. I really like it, actually, and I appreciate how a lot of it is set up. Been using it daily for 4 years.
I loathed windows the entire time I used it, and had been side-eyeing linux for quite a while before committing. I don’t know if I’m a “normal” use-case, probably not. Possibly it is best to take my experience as, “if you keep hitting walls often in windows that frustrate the hell out of you, linux might be a decent choice for you, and might “feel easier.”” Both have their own quirks and own troubleshooting, I just prefer the ones on mint and they make more sense to me. (And take me far less time.)
Constantly having issues
You’re going to see a lot of issues on Linux boards because people go to then for help. I’ve been running Linux since 2020 and though there have been hiccups, its been remarkably reliable. Having said that, when there ARE issues, it can take some digging to find answers.
Is it not stable
Moreso than Win 11, in my experience. I use Win 11 at work and I’ve needed a system wipe twice. Once because networking just… stopped… and once because appx apps decided not to load.
Ongoing issues
Plugging PopOS as a good “set and forget” distro that is easy to grasp. The workflow is very MacOS and the tweaks they’ve made make for a friendlier interface v Ubuntu, IMO.
PopOS or Mint are the way to go for users who dont want to fiddle with their computer. Stick to the default package manager and let it do the work for you and problems will be rare.
It depends what you want it to do. For basic stuff, linux desktop works fine. If you need specific software i’d look into if it’s doable and how hard it is first.
Linux by default runs fine and without issues, if you pick a distro with stable releases. If you go with something like Arch, you likely will run into issues. If you want to do heavy modifications or run fancy software, you tend to run into issues. Thing about the fancy software is, it tenda to only work properly on linux, hence the issues being linux related.
If you’re a gamer, just don’t. A lot of people here will say you can run almost any game easily, but you usually need to do some fancy commands per specific game to get it to run properly. Which is fine if you just play one game occasionally, but if you hop between games or like buying the latest games, don’t.
If you have a specific preference for desktop environment, make sure it comes with the distro and is well supported by it. You can install whatever you want on any distro, but you have more chance to break shit.
I’d go with Mint or Ubuntu for your first try.
Unless you have very niche needs or choose to tinker, everything just works.